Tim Braheem (00:00:19):
Hello, and welcome to the 360 podcast, fascinating conversations with interesting people. I'm your host, Tim Braheem and today's interview and discussion is with Josh metal from Neo home loans.
Tim Braheem (00:00:33):
Josh is an industry leading author mortgage originator, ranking him in the top 1% of mortgage originators in 2020, according to mortgage executive magazine, Josh is also a fourth generation real estate investor. And along with his mother, they own a number of rental properties, apartment buildings, and commercial buildings. So he brings breadth of wisdom and a full scope of wisdom as it relates to mortgage finance. Josh currently serves as a Division President, and a Director of physician lending at NEO home loans, which is affiliated with Celebrity Home Loans. He has passion for empowering home buyers with financial literacy and guiding them on their journey to financial freedom. My personal experience with Josh has encompassed about four and a half years now where I've been his coach. So I've gotten to know him quite well. He's an incredibly positive and incredibly self-motivated individual.
Tim Braheem (00:01:28):
I think that you're going to really experience that in the course of our discussion, seeing how he he gets up every morning and really takes the day with his own initiative. His entrepreneurial spirit is unlike any other. And I really admire the way that Josh strives to have a balanced life with his wife, Hillary and his, his two children are in Xander. He's very gifted at sales scripting. You're gonna hear that in the course of our discussion. He's also one of the best, if not the best that I know when it comes to social media marketing within the mortgage space, which has been one of his, his real key secrets to his success. And he currently mentors other business professionals, including those that are on his team. And he is a, a wonderful teacher. So without further ado, it is my great pleasure to provide you with this interview with my friend and excellent entrepreneur in the mortgage space. Josh metal, Josh metal. Good morning, brother. Good to see you, man. Thanks for being a guest for my very first podcast. It's really an honor to have you. I, it took the easy route and picked a layup interviewing you.
Josh Mettle (00:02:51):
, all, no air balls from the layup zone. So we're gonna have a great time. I'm excited to be with you on the maiden voyage of this podcast, by the way, what are we naming this podcast?
Tim Braheem (00:03:02):
The 360 interesting conversations with fascinating people. So it's really nice to, to start off with that meeting the billing right with you on here. So you, you look like you're nice and relaxed, man. You got your vest on your things are probably cooling down in the, in the mountains of Utah. And a lot of people come in hot for these types of interviews. And I know you well enough to know that, you know, even though it's nine 15 in the morning in Utah, you're you've been up for a while. Tell me tell me about your morning routine. I, I know that you execute on that pretty religiously.
Josh Mettle (00:03:32):
Yeah. I'm ready for my lunchtime snack at nine 15. This is, this is almost midday for me. Yeah. This morning was interesting. So my alarm clock didn't go off and thankfully Hillary's did so at 4 0 9, my alarm clock went off and I was like, man, I feel super well rested. Wonder what happened there? Well, that extra 45 minutes of sleep went a long ways, but yeah. Got a great workout with Hillary in this morning, which is always blast played with the kids had breakfast. I, I didn't get my full hour long meditation, which was my intention today. I was gonna do one of the ones that you'd recommended for me, but I got, you know, 10 minutes of of the stillness the, the generous, present moment meditation in. And so what I've been trying to do is really create enough space that I have a full hour. So I don't, I don't try and make my meditation fit into the timeframe that the meditation can just take the amount of time that it takes. Today I wasn't successful at that, but I did get extra sleep and I got to hang out with my family and I got 10 minutes in. So I'll call that a win.
Tim Braheem (00:04:33):
Absolutely. Let's, let's dive a little deeper into that. I got, first question I have is this so like, I can't get up as early as you, I don't know why I try. I mean, your, your discipline to waking that early, I think probably has a little bit to do with your discipline to going to bed early. So I want to hear, first of all, about what time you go to sleep at night. And then secondly, is I need a little coaching from you. So like how do you avoid hitting snooze and land there and lounging around and stretching out and dozing back off? I mean, I've actually, I, I saw a tip and a strategy that was that was out on the internet somewhere about like putting your phone, like at the other side of the room. So it requires you to get up and walk across the room, but I'd probably just dive right back under the covers after hitting snooze. How do you, how do you do that?
Josh Mettle (00:05:15):
Well, you you're exactly right. The, the wake up and the start to my day is immediately correlated to the way I finished the day. So let me take you back to the end of my day yesterday.
Tim Braheem (00:05:29):
Yeah, yeah, please.
Josh Mettle (00:05:30):
You know, we had a big investor presentation, which for me has a lot of stress because there's a lot of numbers involved. There was a lot of things that we wanted to cover, and I know a lot of people were gonna be watching that recording or there. And I just wanted to make sure we answered all the questions and we didn't miss anything. And trying to explain what we've done in 90 days of research in 60 minutes, you know, takes a lot of concentration. And so we hit that at the end of the day and that ends at 6 0 9 and at six oh nine, the phone goes to do not disturb. And I rush down to Xander, we grab the football, we jump in the Jeep, we go to the park, I take off my flip flops and I get my feet in the grass and I just start getting grounded and playing with my kids.
Josh Mettle (00:06:16):
And what I know is if that I can, if I can get outside and I can play with my kids to end my day, it's a totally different energy that moves all the way into the next day. So, so that happened perfectly yesterday. We got a good, you know, hour of playing. We watched an epic sunset that I, I posted on social media last night. And I was in bed by 7 45. I was asleep asleep by eight. So then the question is, well, how do you go to sleep at eight? Well, you go to sleep at eight because I woke up at three 30 the morning before. And by the time you hit seven, o'clock your body's telling you, you know, we all run by these circadian rhythms, but we, we get thrown off the circadian rhythms because we have lights and screens and digital input and pings and social media and all the things that distract us.
Josh Mettle (00:07:05):
But if you can insulate yourself from those by auto setting, your phone to do not disturb. So like my phone, for example if I go into my settings real quick, my do not disturb is set automatically. I dunno if you could see that at 6:30 PM. So at six 30, I have it on right now, cuz we're talking, but at 6:30 PM, it automatically goes to do not disturb. And that means only my favorites can call in and people can still call in text, but there's no alerts. The screen doesn't light up. I don't, I don't get notified. So that's one big tip. The other big tip is go play like for me. And this is something that you and I have been working on over the last couple of years is like, I've realized that my life and just the energy that I have is totally different if I bookend my days with play. So my morning play is meditation weights, breakfast with the kids. My evening play is if I can get out on a trail with my dog or I can go throw a football with my son, I can put my, my bare feet on the grass. I'm grounded and I'm detached and I'm ready for that, you know, seven and a half hours of rest.
Tim Braheem (00:08:14):
So what let, I mean, you ju you touched on it, but let's dive a little bit deeper. I mean, for those that are listening that are, that are wondering, oh, why the hell does he go to bed so early and how does he go to bed so early? And how does he ever catch up on any TV shows and, and does he ever have a cocktail with anybody? And shit, I'm just eating dinner at, at, at 7 45 when he's hitting the, the pillow. Why, why do you do it? Like, what's the, you touched a little bit on the payoff, but like clearly you've tested this out a little bit and there's a reason you've landed on waking up so early. And then there's a reason, you know, obviously you go to bed early to be able to wake up early, but what's the effect, what's the benefit for those listening that they may want to consider.
Josh Mettle (00:08:55):
I'll start with a, I'll start with a why, and then I'll go into the benefit. You know, you know that I had a a childhood upbringing where there was a lot of insecurity around money and where we were gonna live and, and, and those types of things that, that still drive me to this day, right? There's, there's part of that beingness that if I'm not up and I'm not working on providing, it could all be gone tomorrow. And that is ridiculous at this point. where, I mean, where I am with my investments in cash flow. Like that's not even, that's not even like reality, but it still drives me. And and, and I've gotten into this habit of waking up early. And what I've realized is that it makes me feel powerful and it makes me feel present because I have the time to drink my vegetable juice and take my vitamins and drink my mushroom coffee and sit down for an hour of meditation.
Josh Mettle (00:09:58):
And then usually I do an hour of work. Then I go down to the gym and then I have breakfast with the kids. Like I get all that time that I'm in complete control. Nobody's pulling me off script. Yeah. Nobody's blowing me up. I own that ritual. And that sets me on a course. It's like, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll liken it to dropping in on a wave, right? Like I get to dictate every stroke and the perfect stand. And then I get to drop in on that wave. And the wave just propels me for my day. If I don't do that, then it's like, you know, just fishtail, you know, I'm just, I'm just ass over tea kettle for my day. And I've just figured out I'm a more capable human being when I script the first portion of that day, rather than running in here feeling like I'm chaotic.
Tim Braheem (00:10:50):
So starting off on purpose, starting off in control, not having the outside world infiltrating you. I totally get it, man. When I get up really early, like when I'm down in Costa Rica, just, I, I go to bed early, like you do. I go to bed like at eight 30 and I wake up when the suns at five and one of the things that's so amazing, I was talking to E about this the other day is how cool it is when you know, it hits nine o'clock in the morning and you look back and you go like, man, I've already gotten a workout in, I already meditated. I had a nice slow morning breakfast. I, I kind of planned my day and it's still only 9:00 AM. I mean, it's a, it's a really tremendous feeling of accomplishment that happens when you start your day off on purpose like that and are, are free to be in control rather than reacting everything.
Tim Braheem (00:11:32):
Right. And I, I, you know, one of the things that, that I wanna point out, I don't know if you know this, I don't know if we ever talked about this, but in all of the great traditions, you know, Catholicism with Catholic priests Muslim with, with, with their, their holy people, the sages of India, all of the traditions, they all wake at 4:00 AM like that is the magic hour. That, and, and there's a real reason for that. You heard Dr. Joe talk about this when together. And that's because that's when the pine gland, which is a gland that's in the back of your head right here. It's known in some traditions as the third eye. If it goes all the way through which, which has a lot to do with consciousness and has a lot to do with intuition and awareness and clarity and connection to source, that's opened up and at its peak level because of melatonin secretion at that hour. So for, for 2000 years, they all get up at that hour. And that's when they ponder that's when they do their best work. That's when it is statistically proven that we have the greatest mental acuity and clarity and the greatest awareness to where we can work through things. So I I'm wondering if that was an intention of yours, or you just stumbled upon that hour because 4:00 AM is the magic hour and has been for, you know, hundreds of thousands of years
Josh Mettle (00:12:54):
Stumbled more than, more than researched and found it out. I just found it to be true for myself. You know, I was doing the, the generous present moment meditation this morning. And even though I only had 10 minutes, I gave myself complete permission to be present and surrender for 10 minutes. And it was enough to take me out of focusing on what I have to do accomplish today on this interview with you with a I'm, I'm doing a, a Facebook live Bulletproof fire presentation, right after this, like the minute we get off. And then right after that, I'm gonna teach our loan officer training to, you know, 60, 70, 80 loan officers, literally no margin, just minute to minute. And then right after that, we go into a two hour live event that we're hosting at my branch. And then it's, I have coaching calls up until six o'clock, so that can get daunting.
Josh Mettle (00:13:52):
And if I wake up in the morning and I start thinking about all of those things and all the things that can go wrong, I'm no longer in the present moment and all suffering in, in, in the way I see it is in was when you're either living something that happened in the past or you're living you're, you're foreshadowing, something that's gonna happen in the future. And all of that to me is suffering and, and things you can't really control. So if I can take that morning and I can center and I can connect with the universe or God, or whatever you believe in, and I can just connect to the present moment and let all of that go.
Josh Mettle (00:14:33):
It's like a fricking rad, rad way to start your day. You just feel so there's just so much closeness and you just feel so much power. And then if I can go straight into Tim, some sort of, you know, what Tim Gerber would call working on your business work versus working in your business. So you, if I go sit down in my office at home and I start into email shame on me, but if I have a project teed up, then I need to rewrite some scripting for a marketing campaign, or I need to, you know, put together a PowerPoint presentation that I'm gonna give something creative. If I can roll straight into that, that one, two punch that jab cross is the most powerful combination. I know.
Tim Braheem (00:15:14):
Yeah. And you know, the, the thing I'd add to the power of what you're talking about. And so brilliantly articulated is that you're actually giving yourself an opportunity out of the gate to build some momentum and actually accomplish something that was an objective, right? Like a rock in the, the rocks and pebbles metaphor that I talk about when it comes to time management. So you're executing on at least one rock every morning, before the day starts taking over and starts coming at you. And most people wake up and they go straight to the phone, they go straight to reacting, they're reacting their email, they're reacting their texts. Their nervous system gets jacked up right away. It's difficult for them to digest their first meal of the day, you know, because they're just already revved up. And then the next thing, you know, the day takes over the day ends.
Tim Braheem (00:15:57):
You look back and you feel unaccomplished, but you're setting yourself up for success no matter what, by getting up early, having this rhythm and this routine tapping into the mental clarity and creativity that is available at that early hour executing on, on something that's important. So no matter what happens from 9:00 AM afterwards, you can still look back on the day and have at least one when, if not several, when it's all said and done, let's talk about transitions. You, you hit on something that I, I think is really important that I don't wanna miss, which is, you know, I, I I've, I've spent a lot of time Josh thinking about the subject matter of transitions and integration. And I, I think it happens in our lives a lot more than we realize. So let me, let me elaborate. You know, when you go on vacation generally takes somebody two or three days if they ever get there to wind down, okay, that's a transition into a different state of being of presence or being relaxed of having fun of being enjoy.
Tim Braheem (00:16:58):
And there's an integration into that, right? And then when you come back from vacation, a lot of times it can take people a day or two to turn their brain back on. I mean, it's got back from a long one, myself, where my brain was totally turned off and it there's this transition period to turn it back on same holds true for having a jacked up highly intense day, getting home with your family, you have a difficult time. Some people have a very difficult time. I sure did in turning the brain off when you're having dinner with your family. And that's another transition point, and we have all these transitions from one energetic rhythm to another throughout the day, since we're sticking with the subject matter here for just a moment of starting off your day, right? You act actually touched on a really important transition point, putting your feet in the grass, putting the, do not disturb on. Let's talk about that for a minute. How you transitioned back into being a father and a husband and not the entrepreneur on a daily basis.
Josh Mettle (00:17:52):
Yeah, it, it's interesting. You just named that a transition, cuz I hadn't actually, you know, I hadn't actually identified that as something that was so significant. I just am aware that I feel better. And my here's, what's interesting, even if I get the same amount of sleep, but I'm come out of a, you know, I come out of a late training or a late phone call and it's seven o'clock and I get off. And now really all there is, is time to like take vitamins and set out my coffee and then I'm gonna go sit down in bed. I can get the same amount of sleep, but the energetic experience, the next day is totally different. I like, I would say, you know, if I do that a couple days in a row, I'm a cigarette that's smoked all the way down to the butt.
Josh Mettle (00:18:39):
You know what I mean? There's just nothing left. But what I've figured out is that the whole rhythm of my life works better if I can get to a state of play. And when I say play, I'll walk with my dog. Sitting on the deck, watching the sunshine with my wife for, for, you know, 30 minutes anything that is really connection with another human being. But oftentimes that involves balls or, you know, a, a one wheel skateboard thing or chasing the dog. Usually there's some sort of activity around it. For some reason that activity puts the relationship with my family and my relationship probably with myself as I'm peering myself, think this out at a better place the next day. And I can keep working those, you know, those really long days, as long as I have those transitions as you called it in place. So play for me or transition as you're calling it is absolutely key. And I really hadn't quite labeled it the way you had. So thanks for bringing that up.
Tim Braheem (00:19:43):
Well, I, I'm hearing a couple things in that. The first thing I'm hearing is that you have a transition routine into sleep. Okay. And that's a really important thing. I mean, think about how many people are on their email at 10 30 at night out, you know, wound themselves down with a couple of cocktails and then they're trying to have a restful night of sleep and, and they hit the pillow and their mind's still racing. So they haven't created transition plan to go into sleep state. And what you're talking about about connection, you know, the, the longest road in the world is from your head to your heart. I mean, that, that is the super highway that we're all trying to travel. And there are, there are a lot of speed bumps and roadblocks along the way. Right. And what you're doing is you've systematically built in a pathway to move from here at the, you know, six 30 at night into here.
Tim Braheem (00:20:27):
Wow. And from here, it's a lot easier because your nervous, system's relaxed to have a restful night of sleep. And I think one of the things, I don't know if you read the power of full engagement, but that book that, that we had the book club on, you know, they talked about that, like it's, it's, you know, intense bursts of exertion followed by rest, right? So you're creating that as a natural byproduct of the way that you've set up your life is that you have, you have these intense bursts of, of, of, of focused in your head, strategic entrepreneur time. And then you've, you know, embraced the discipline of moving out of that and giving your mind some time to rest. So you can be rejuvenated for the next day and to take it on, you know, fast and furious like you do. So let's I wanna take two steps backwards of me and imagine some of the people that jumped on here are wanting to know like, Hey, I wanna hear about Josh metal's marketing strategies and what's he doing right now to transition.
Tim Braheem (00:21:21):
Now that interest rates are starting to go up a little bit and we're gonna get there. I promise, but we're gonna, we're gonna go two steps backward because one of the things that, that is really important to me during these interviews is we get to know the person because it's what is behind the, the activity and behind the byproduct of their success that I think has everything to do with their success. So I wanna start back when you were a boy, like, what were your hobbies when you were a young boy? Tell me a little bit about your childhood.
Josh Mettle (00:21:50):
My earliest hobby, I can remember Tim is selling things. I mean, I was into skateboards and selling things when I was I think I was about eight years old. I joined the, the boy Scouts and I joined halfway through the they have this boy scout event at the end of the year. I can't quite recall what they call that, but it was like a boy scout Jambo. And you would, the boy Scouts would sell tickets for like nine months or something like that. And then at the end of the year, they'd have this big Jamboree and it was a huge boy scout party and it was like a carnival and you'd bring your kids. And there was, you know, popcorn and, and, and the, and the candied apples and everything. It was like a really cool party. And so what you would do is you'd sell these tickets to the Jamboree.
Josh Mettle (00:22:40):
And and then whoever had the most amount of tickets got a bunch of gifts and an award and a, and a bunch of recognition and a merit badge. And so I, I remember I came in about five months into the nine month competition. This is going back to like, you know, as eight years old. So I'm, I'm in there, I'm close on those dates. And I started selling tickets and in the, you know, the, the preceding four months or three months, however much time I had, I ended up selling more Jamboree tickets than any boy scout in the whole state of California at eight years old. Wow. So I, you know, I, I'm not sure a hundred percent where that hustle came from, but
Tim Braheem (00:23:18):
What was the, what was the, what would you, if you had to pinpoint, like, why, like, why were you so much more successful at it? Was your, was it your scripting? Was it your, sticktuitiveness your aggressiveness? What was it? What, what you're, you're not being afraid to hear? No, I mean, what was, what was the magic man?
Josh Mettle (00:23:35):
I, you know, the first thing that comes up to me is that I, I just didn't have a problem to confront the challenge. And I think a lot of children and probably a lot of adults just like up that phone call and making a hard call or, you know, cold calling a realtor or something like that, that wasn't a real, that wasn't a real hangup for me. So the, the, one of my success strategies was my mom would go to the grocery store and I, and, and, and she'd say, okay, I've got 45 minutes. So I'd spend the first 20 minutes at the entry door trying to sell these tickets. And, and what would everybody say when they were going in? Yeah, yeah, I'm interested, but I'll, I'll get it on my way out. And I realized that the exit door was on, you know, the other side of the store.
Josh Mettle (00:24:17):
So I'd spend 20 minutes at the entry door and then I'd spend the next 25 minutes at the exit door. And I was like, Hey, you said on your way in, you'd buy one on your way out. I got two tickets for you. So I would just, you know, I would just, I would just say, Hey, you gotta come to the Jamboree. You know, I, I, I wanna win this competition it's for a good cause let's go. And so I think one thing would just be confront. I don't know where the, you know, I, I think there was a part of just my growing up where, you know, single mom, she was a solo entrepreneur. She worked her butt off, but we had the roller coasters financially. And there was a lot of insecurity and fear around just financial wellbeing. And, and, you know, is there gonna be enough food and is there gonna be a gang shooting outside of our, sort of our 400 square foot apartment tonight?
Josh Mettle (00:25:05):
I mean, all that kind of stuff. As a kid made me realize early that I was gonna have to figure it out and I was gonna have to take full responsibility for this situation myself. And so I think part of that probably played into that aggressiveness. You know, another story was I, I used to sell popcorn. We lived in a holiday Inn hotel for about three months, one time. And I can't remember the backstory of why that happened, but we did. And what I realized was all the people on the weekend would go down to the pool and party by the pool. And so I would pop popcorn. I'd buy like the, the overal red and B big gallons of popcorn, and I'd pop popcorn, put 'em in brown bags, put butter on 'em and then I'd go around the pool and I'd sell 'em for a dollar.
Josh Mettle (00:25:51):
So I'd make like $200 in, in popcorn sales on a weekend. And it would cost us, you know, 20 bucks for the, for the popcorn, the butter, the popcorn maker, the whole thing. And then I would just sell popcorn every single weekend. And then when I got everybody at the pool, I'd just go door to door and knock, knock down all the hallways at the holiday in, and what are you gonna do? There's a nine year old kid with a bag of popcorn. He is like, Hey, you're gonna watch the game today. You need popcorn. And you know, so it's just in my, in my blood, I guess.
Tim Braheem (00:26:20):
So every, I find, you know, having, you know, coached a lot of people now over a long period of time that the, that a lot of the successful people like yourself have a story. There's always a story, which is like, why I like to go back to someone's childhood. I mean, they, you know, there are people that are in this business of doing mortgages or selling real estate or sales in general that have this natural innate ability to put their own back against the wall. And, and to have the, the, the hood spot, you know, the, to just go hard. Right. And there's always a story behind that. I don't believe that any of us are just born with that. Like, I think that there's some, some social upbringing, there's some, you know, some nurture, if you will, in the nature nurture model that, that creates that.
Tim Braheem (00:27:10):
Okay. So your story is, you know, just articulated very briefly. I know more depth to it, but, you know, you were in a situation where, you know, when you became an adult, you're like, I don't wanna have to have my kids live the life that I had to live as a kid where I was having to hustle so hard. So that's your why that's like the driving force, but one of the things that I'm also aware of, cuz I've got my own story, which we won't get into that has driven me is that that can be also our, our blind spot, our shadow side. Right? Sure. Like we just drive so hard that we've eroded or atrophied the muscle of play or the muscle of relaxation and presence and these types of things. So how do you, how do you deal with that? I mean, you touched a little bit upon it, but is there more that you'd wanna say, I mean, how you put your feet in the grass you play catch with Xander, with the football, you, you know, you go out for, for a walk with your dog, like, do you, do you feel that in your life, that's an area that you still need to work on consistently because left your own devices, you would just be driving hard all the time.
Josh Mettle (00:28:16):
A hundred percent. And I wanna, I wanna touch on that. I'd like to go back one, because one of the thing came up for me, which was, you know, I'd be remiss if I didn't also mention that mom being a solo entrepreneur taught me that I was thinking, you know, where did I get that re sense of responsibility that I had to figure this out for myself? Well, I got that from watching mom, right? She was finding one business to the next, she would work ridiculous, you know, 16 hour days. I remember waking up in the, you know, in the middle of the night or first thing in the morning and, and she's always already working. So she wasn't, you know, like an order taker that just checked in conveniently from, from nine to five, like she was hustling and sometimes there were windfalls and things went great.
Josh Mettle (00:29:02):
And a lot of times there were, you know, financial insecurities, but she to watch her example of hustling and never getting up and taking full responsibility for where she was and getting ahead, certainly a lot of my modeling came from, from watching her. And we had a lot of fun stories of me working in her businesses over the years that are like really pleasant memories that, that are still connected to my heart. So anyways, I just wanted to, I wanted to touch on that because mom deserves a, a ton of credit. As it relates to the question about, you know, this story, whatever your story is, or my story is it drives us and it can drive us towards negative VI or it can drive us to a, a, a happy place. I, I know for me that has been something that I have had to, I've been aware of that as you said left to my own devices, I would've just been driving away from the fear for my whole life.
Josh Mettle (00:30:06):
And, and I remember when we started coaching, you know, my goal was I think it was triple my current income level because, and, and, and if, and one of the things that you helped me with and, and, and your team helped me with was to ask the question why, you know, what, why, what, what happens then, and starting to, and I started to realize that I've pinned my happiness somewhere out into the future, and it's tied to some arbitrary level of success or financial gain. And the question is, okay, well, five years ago, or 10 years ago, you would've looked at where you are today. And you would've said, well, if I could have ever got to that digit in a year, well, then I'm gonna be happy. Well, then you did that and you double that digit. And now you're saying, if you double that digit again, that you're gonna be, you're gonna be happy.
Josh Mettle (00:31:02):
Like I just had to have some help to figure out that that wasn't the path that was gonna lead to happiness. For me, that was the path that was gonna lead to divorce and, and regret. So somewhere along the, you know, somewhere along that path, I I've had to reorientate to what it is that actually derives happiness. And it is ritual. It is transition time with family. It is slowing down to play a little bit. So I, I'm not gonna say I have that mastered. I'm still very much working on it. And if you ask my wife, she'll tell you that I'm not doing all that great at it, but I'm, I'm doing a lot better at it that if I, I wouldn't have put the attention on it and have the awareness around it that I do.
Tim Braheem (00:31:46):
So, I mean, there, there are people that have that part mastered, right? That, that they're just blissfully present a lot of the time they're really connected, et cetera. And then they're struggling to earn enough money, right. So it's like, it's, it's the truth is always somewhere in the middle. It's always about balance it's the in and yang of, of life. Right? So it's, it's about finding that equilibrium. So it's, it's interesting to hear that that is as is the case with me. It's, it's always been my work, so I totally can relate to what you're talking about. I wanna get into business here in just a minute, but I wanna ask you a really important question about, about aging. Okay. I know that this is a topic I've heard you bring this up before. I believe you've said you wanna live to be 120 years old, is that correct?
Josh Mettle (00:32:27):
You're right. Yep. Got it. So,
Tim Braheem (00:32:28):
So I have some opinions about that. We might have a slight little debate here. We'll see how it all unfolds, but I'm curious about like, where do these ambitions come from? Why do you wanna live to be 120 years old? Let's start there.
Josh Mettle (00:32:40):
So I started listening to a podcast. I believe it's called exponential abundance. I can, I can look it up on my phone here. And they started talking about human longevity and started talking about all of the all of the technology and all of the medical advancement. That's, that's coming along between, you know, super computing and 3d printing and DNA splicing and everything else. That's all kind of converging at the same time. And as I started to listen and learn about those technologies, I just started to think, man, that, that really registers for me. And one of the, one of the things that was described in that podcast is that we'll hit a point with technology and where we are with medical advancement, that every year that, that you are able to stay alive on your own technology will advance at a pace to keep you another year older.
Josh Mettle (00:33:45):
So essentially you've hit this kind of place where if you have enough money and you're in good enough shape, once you hit that place in technology development, that you could essentially, you know, live forever. And I'll give you the name of the, the podcast. So you can maybe put it in the notes if people want to check it out. But it, it was just something that was really fascinating to me. And I started going down that rabbit hole and then, you know, started when I started my journey into, into meditation. I believe that meditation has put me in a lot better physical shape. In other words, I had a lot of injuries from a Harley Davidson crash from shoulder surgery when I played college football from hip surgery in high school football broken wrist. I mean, my, if you did an x-ray on my body
Tim Braheem (00:34:35):
Surfing, surfing accident, Costa Rica, that I'm surfing
Josh Mettle (00:34:38):
Accident. That's right. I mean, my, my body's been, you know, through the ringer and there was a lot of plaguing in injuries that just really nagged my, my exercise routine. And since I really started getting into meditation, let's say maybe, you know, two or three years ago the vast majority of those plaguing injuries are gone and do not bother me anymore. And that just kind of furthered my belief, okay. If I can eat right. If I can sleep right. If I can continue to pursue these things that are conducive to human longevity, if I stay in a meditation routine, I believe it's possible that to live a lot longer than the current expectation of 80 years today. So I picked a number and I said, all right, let's go for that.
Tim Braheem (00:35:25):
So here's, my here was here was my, you you've, you've somewhat answered my inquiry in the sense that I've kind of viewed it through a different lens of like, you know, I see like my mom, she's 79 years old. And she just found out like a couple of days ago that she tore a rotator cuff. And now she's faced with whether or not she's gonna have to have rotator cuff surgery at the age of 79. My dad had both of his knees replaced. He, he was on kidney dialysis, poor, poor man before he died him. And he really suffered. So I've, I've seen a lot of people get old, you know, mid seventies, late seventies, early eighties, and they're kept alive by medical science, but their quality of life is not, not good at all. Like my dad, like the last eight, 10 years of life bro were just, were really tough, you know?
Tim Braheem (00:36:12):
And I've asked myself the question, like why, why would I wanna live to be a hundred? Like if the last 20 years of my life were, you know, I'm being kept alive, but it's not a quality experience. What, what's the real value in that. So I think that you've, you've answered that. I think I understand your answer, which is, you know, utilizing technology, utilizing meditation, eating right, keeping your body fit, you know, making sure that your muscle masses is, is strong enough to where your ligaments and all that kind of stuff are supported to where you're actually active and having an enjoyable life. So let me ask you this question since you've put so much thought into it, you're only a little more than a third of the way home brother. I mean, you got like 63% of the race or something like that left to run. What's what's Josh metal's life and day look like when he is 95.
Josh Mettle (00:36:59):
Well, I'm gonna script out for you, my, my hundredth year birthday party, because I've already this is, this is going to happen as far as I'm concerned. I've decided on it and I've, I've already scripted out and at a hundred, and this speaks to what you were talking about. Like, nobody, I have no interest in living to 120, if life sucks, like life has to be rad. I still have to, you know, be fascinated in something. I still have to have young friends. I still have to, you know, be able to, to meditate and walk and do the things that would still be rewarding at that age. I probably won't be surfing at 120, but on my hundredth birthday, if I play my cards, right, what I would really enjoy doing is waking up and having an incredible sunrise meditation followed by a day of a, probably a half day, a morning of surfing.
Josh Mettle (00:37:52):
I wanna have all my friends and relatives and great, great, great grandkids at that point at a, at a, at a lunch on the beach with incredible wine seafood, you can see that, you know, the beach and the sheer and the candles, and just, you know, as decadent and as amazing of a Beachside meal as you've ever had in your entire life, I wanna watch the sunset and I wanna have sex like that is going to happen on my hundredth birthday. And if I can't check into those activities, then I don't wanna, I don't wanna be, will you
Tim Braheem (00:38:27):
Be having sex with someone or with yourself?
Josh Mettle (00:38:30):
Well, I probably both. I plan to be pretty pretty ambitious at that age veer, aisle and vigorous, but, you know, I, I think part of it is deciding that you're going to live the lifestyle. That's going to give you the highest propensity of chance to get to that end. And just real quick, cuz I was driving me crazy. The podcast I'm talking about is increasing abundance and exponential technology and the, the the host of that is Peter DTIs, who's the guy behind the X prize and then Dan Sullivan, who is the CEO and founder of strategic coach. And it's a fascinating podcast. There's a lot of it. There's a lot of their episodes around human longevity. I encourage anybody to check it
Tim Braheem (00:39:18):
Out. Cool. Thanks for sharing that. I'm gonna share a quote with you tying into and tying down this, this subject that we've been talking about, and then we're gonna transition into your history as a mortgage originator and some things that you would suggest in today's market. My coach who's her name is Nicole. She's been my coach for 12 years now. It's fair to say that she knows me better than anybody on the planet. she said, and I quote, I'm gonna read it cuz I, I wrote it down cause I wanna make sure I got it right. She said, Tim, she said this to me about five, six years ago. She said, be careful of your desire to consume life and its impact on the experience that you're having in your life. I'm wondering how you feel about that statement.
Josh Mettle (00:40:03):
I think it's brilliant. And you know, there's an Einstein quote that I am not gonna get exactly right. But it parallels what she said. She, he said that a calm and modest life is more rewarding than a life filled with aspiration and stress. And you know, that's kind of an interesting quote from, from Albert Einstein, but that actually piece of paper that he wrote that on was turned into an art piece and sold for over sold for over a million dollars. And I thought that was a really interesting quote that that came from him. And so I think that goes back to this life balance, right? If, if, if we take what, what fuels us and we allow it to consume us and we just act off of that energy without some sort of regard to how we're impacting the people around us or our relationships, our connection to the universe, our connection to our family. Ultimately we're gonna end up way off course and we're chasing something that we thought was gonna yield as happiness, but all too often just, just brings us separation and, and, and misery. So I think, I think her, I think her wisdom is spot on.
Tim Braheem (00:41:21):
Yeah. I mean, my I've done a, a ton of traveling in my life and there used to be a point in time in my life where I literally could tell you what the next five vacations were that I was gonna take, cuz they were all booked and paid for it, like literally a year in advance. And then I realized after a while that I'm just racing from one vacation to the other and I'm not really actually having the fullest experience of those moments because I'm on this hamster wheel of wanting to conquer and achieve. And I was even doing it with my vacations. It was like, I was a voracious eater of life, but I wasn't digesting my food, you know? And I, I bring it up because I know there's a lot of ambitious people that are listening to this. I'm sure there's a lot of people that can really relate to you.
Tim Braheem (00:42:03):
I think you and I have a lot of similarities in our personality style. We're both highly driven people and you know, sometimes that, that little humble, humble approach to life that Einstein's talking about about just kind of slowing down and going for a slow walk and, you know, giving a long hug to your partner or just being with yourself, you know, the inner landscape that you're talking about through meditation is one that very few of us spend a lot of time in. And I mean those of you that don't know that are listening, I've been a avid meditator for a very long time now. So it's a big part of my life too. So let's transition to your career. So you started on a very ominous day in American history. Your first day as an originator was, was a day that everybody remembers that's at least old enough to remember what was your first day in the business and, and tell us a little bit about the beginning of your career.
Josh Mettle (00:42:58):
Yeah. I'll, I'll give you the transition before I got there. Cause I think it's kind of interesting. I was just running a, so after college football, I ended up at a gym. I was working out at a gym feverously to try and get back in shape and I was gonna go back and finish my undergrad and then get an MBA. And I ended up being the sales. I ended up being hired into that gym and ended up as a sales manager there and was, you know, successful beyond what I thought was possible. Growing up, you know, when I was growing up, the, the person around me that had the highest income that I knew of was $35,000 a year. And, and so I thought, you know, if I could ever make it to that place, then I would have arrived. Like that's, that's kind of like the apex.
Josh Mettle (00:43:41):
And within two years of working at the gym, I was making almost four times that amount and I was, you know, 21 years old or something like that. It was pretty, pretty wild. And that was really my indoctrination into formalized sales. And I replaced the hunger for football competing in football to the hunger of competing to see my name on the, the top of the page and in terms of the, you know, the sales list. And then through that experience, I met a gentleman who owned a owned a mortgage company called the money shop. And so I, when I, when I ended up putting the gym a great name, yeah, the money shop, it was, it was, it was right next to the pawn shop. I mean
Tim Braheem (00:44:27):
That quasi shady, Josh
Josh Mettle (00:44:28):
Quasi shady, they did most of the option in, in America I think. And when he, you know, ended up hiring me into mortgages, the plan was I was going to do mortgages and then I was gonna go back and, and get my, my MBA at night. So first day I'm reporting to, to the office and I'm getting dressed up, which is a new experience for me cause I'd lived in gym clothes for the last 23 years of my life. And I turn on the TV and it's nine 11. That was day number one in the mortgage industry for me. And I'm sure you remember that feeling that morning. It was like, what do we do? It was almost like time just stopped, you know, does, does life go on? Can we, can we, should I go into the office? What, what, what should happen? There was nobody on the streets. Cause I remember I actually did drive into the office. There was nobody there. And it just felt like the whole world paused for that moment. And then even, even in the weeks after, I dunno if you remember, but it was weird. It was like, are, are, is it okay to go back to business? Are we, are, are we, are we mourning or are we healing? And it was a, it was a really ominous kind of just in a very unique experience of starting into this industry.
Tim Braheem (00:45:47):
So how long okay, so, oh actually I just wanna point something out and then I ask you a question. So notice for those of you listening here that there's this continual theme that's starting to build. Okay, there's this young boy who was hungry that figured out from his, from his driven state that he needed to go to both doors to make more sales, to catch up with the four months that he had lost. And then he was roaming around the swimming pool with buttered popcorn and making a couple hundred bucks a weekend. And then he took that same aggressive tenacious attitude onto the football field. And we won't get into that story, but for those of you that, you know, don't know this about Josh. I mean, Josh didn't, he wasn't like he started playing football when he was eight. He was a late bloomer to that too, but then quickly caught up just as he did in the, in the sales positions. And then when that ended he took that same same tenacity, that same motivating force, that same line of energy that pushed him to the gym and now into the mortgage business. So when you started in the mortgage business, what year was it? First of all,
Josh Mettle (00:46:54):
Tim Braheem (00:46:55):
Two. Yeah. That's right. Of course. So 2001, which was actually a really great year to be starting in the mortgage business. I mean that was like the beginning of a nice little refi boom. It was that went on through about 2005. And, and I'm sure that that was, was helpful in you getting started, but then you became, you became and are known for being a tremendous marketer. So let's talk about marketing. Okay. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask a question. That's gonna paint a little bit of a, of a, of a landscape that you can then springboard and, and, and answer, and probably dive into marketing and sales and all these types of things. So I'm gonna assume for a moment, or let's assume for a moment that I take you out of park city, Utah, and I say, look, you can't ever make another phone call in the state of Utah.
Tim Braheem (00:47:41):
Again, you can't call any of the doctors that you do business for. You can't even tap into your existing resource of, of physicians' loans and all of that. And I'm gonna put you, you can't touch your database, you can't call any of those referral partners. I'm taking you and I'm dropping you into Chicago. Okay. And you're gonna start all over today. What are the first two or three things that you would do with the wisdom that you have at this time in the current market where we think rates may be going in 2022, what are the two or three things that you're first focused on?
Josh Mettle (00:48:15):
Well, I've had two runs in the, in the mortgage industry or two themes maybe is a better way to say that the first one was, I was a real estate investor and my mom and I started investing. I think when I was maybe 21, I don't, it was one of the events that actually got me into the mortgage industry is getting burned at a mortgage transaction. And I'm like, well, this is what the, the best of the industry is got. I should probably pursue this. And the first 10 years of well, through 2010. So the first nine years was identifying that investors were having a hard time getting financing, even though we had the fast and easy loans, even though we had the stated income, there was more hair on an investor loan, then there was on a FHA purchase or a, you know, 20% down conventional.
Josh Mettle (00:49:07):
They usually had multiple businesses. They usually had multiple entities. They usually had lots of rental properties. And my mom who had gone back and gotten a law degree very late, I think she was in her, her late forties or fi maybe even fifties when she got her law degree, she started working with landlords doing asset protection and landlord tenant law. And she would come to me and say, Hey, these, these landlords, just like I was having a hard time getting financing for my investment properties. She said, I keep running into investors who are having a hard time getting financing. So I found the solution and the built the system. And because I knew investing, I could speak the language with them and it was a very easy flow and I knew how to get them through the loan process. So if I think back on that, I found somebody who was having a problem.
Josh Mettle (00:49:57):
I had inside knowledge because I knew loans and I was an investor. And I had researched all the programs because I was trying to get loans myself. Like at this point, you know, between 2000, let's just call it 2000 and 2010 mom. And I had bought, I think, 63, 63 units and trying to get financing when you had 20 or 30 units was not an easy task. And so I'd figured that out for myself and for my mom. And now I could apply that solution to my clients fast forward. Great recession hits all my clients in all my database are investors, builders, and realtors who work with builders, gone all of them, every single one of them, bankrupt, foreclosure moved outta the state of Utah out of the game. Literally every single contact I had. In fact, I think there was one of the, of my referral partners that still muddled through, but he was crushed.
Josh Mettle (00:50:55):
He wasn't, he's never really kind of gotten back to the glory he was before. So I somehow stumbled on the next group of people that were having a problem, getting financing and being challenged and, and odd as that was, that was doctors. Well, why? Well, we all know what happened with credit standards after the great recession, right? The, the ability to get a loan got significantly higher. If you look at the, you know, mortgage credit index, you know, it, it dropped from, you know, 400 to 100 or something like that. And it was just difficult to get a loan. And these doctors that were coming out of residency or fellowship, they'd been living on $60,000, piling up credit card debts, and student loan debts now were gonna have this future employment contract. And they wanted to buy a home with a negative net worth tax returns that didn't show that made any money and they've never really banked a check yet.
Josh Mettle (00:51:47):
And they wanted to close on a home and all those things. Oh. And, and by the way, they wanted to relocate their family across the country and move in before their first day on the job. So there was a lot of, there was a lot at risk and there were a lot of there were a lot of detractors to banks qualifying those doctors. And I figured out how to get 'em done. We used local community banks. We used a broker program. We used Fannie Freddie. We used FHA. Like we used this this patchwork of solutions to figure out how to finance these doctors. And then we started down marketing, which we can go to next. But to answer your question, what would I do if you drop me with no resources and start over in Chicago, I would have to figure out who's having a problem.
Josh Mettle (00:52:28):
Exactly. Is it, is it Highrise condos? Is it jumbo? Is it you know, is it first time home buyers and affordability? I, I, I don't know, cuz I'd have to get boots on the ground, but the first thing that I would be looking for is, and I would talk to realtors is I would say, who are you having the hardest time financing? And I'd figure out who that group was. I'd figure out the solution for it. And then I would just start and this parlays into the marketing conversation. And then I would just start talking about their problems in my social media and in my marketing and in my presentations. And once we start to show empathy, we can then start to show authority that we can solve those problems and the referrals would start coming in.
Tim Braheem (00:53:11):
Okay. So I'll, I want you to go into some really important principles of marketing, which you just started to scratch a surface on because I think there's a tremendous amount of wisdom in what you have to share, but before you do, I wanna summarize and I wanna share a couple of my own personal experiences. So the first thing that I want everybody to take in here is that we're seeing a pattern again. Okay. Resourcefulness taking a step back, really thinking for a moment about, Hmm, who has a problem right now, that's not being served and solved. Where are there opportunities that might not be met at this point in time, by most of the people that do what I do for a living, it was the same strategy that you used when you went to the, to the people exiting the store, okay, you were looking out what is where's, where am I swinging and missing when I'm at the plate to use the baseball metaphor, and then you're getting out in front of it and, and, and, and solving problems for people based upon the information that you're getting.
Tim Braheem (00:54:13):
Now, I'll give you an example and I wanna get back to another thing that we're talking about, which is transitions and integration. So the reason I ask this question is because we're likely on the cusp of some type of a transition in the market, at least as we speak, when this interview's being done, refis have really slowed down a lot. Cause we've had a little bit of an uptick in rates. Generally, what happens when that occurs is that most of the people in this industry just get stuck in lead boots. You know, they've been selling the same product. They've been doing the exact same thing, rinse, wash, repeat for the last two, three years. And it's those that are nimble. And those that are strategic back to the, getting up at four o'clock in the morning and spending a little bit of quiet time on thinking strategy, working on your business, like Gerber said, rather than in it all the time, where are their needs?
Tim Braheem (00:55:02):
How can I fulfill them? I wanna take you back to 1994 for a quick moment, share a quick story. So in 1994, which is before you were in the business, I was living in Northridge. I'd been in Northridge, California. I'd been in the business two years. First, two years were great. You know, I made really good money. I made over a hundred thousand dollars in my first full year in the business and I was 27 years old. Awesome. Northridge earthquake hits 6.7 earthquake. 50% of the houses in the San Fernando valley are red tagged. I don't know if you guys know what that means, but that means that they don't appraise they're damaged. So you can't refi 'em okay. Interest rates spiked from low sevens to mid nines. Oh, okay. 1994. All right. So I'm like, where am I even gonna get a loan?
Tim Braheem (00:55:51):
Like originating one loan a week was a monumental event. And I had to go to the same place that you went to. And Steven Marshall, who most of you know, he and I are in the business at the same time, we used to strategize a lot and we'd have this conversation on a consistent basis. The exact conversation that Josh is, Josh is posing to right now, what needs are there out there that are not being served? Yeah, everybody's doing the same thing, but there's stuff that people need. That's not being taken care of. And how can we be the specialist in that area? So that's where the need that wasn't being served back then was cash flow. You know, people were struggling a nine and a half or nine and a quarter percent 30 year fix was gonna be a crippling payment. So that's where I figured out how to sell the option arm and to sell it in a way that was educational.
Tim Braheem (00:56:45):
And that gave people the understanding that it's actually two loans in one that you could make the fully amortized payment, or you could treat it like an equity line of credit on your property and make the minimum payment and tap into your equity. When cash flow was challenging at that time. And I was able to fight my way through and get 2, 3, 4 loans a month done selling this product that nobody else was selling because nobody knew how to sell it. And nobody had identified the need, which was, there are people that need a product that has the flexibility for their cash flow purposes. Now, in closing, looking forward into 2022 and beyond if rates are to go up, you need to be the first one to pivot. If you're the one that's stuck in lead boots, like everybody else, you're all gonna be fighting for the same cheese.
Tim Braheem (00:57:30):
That is a very small piece, but there are other pieces of cheese that nobody's even looking at. And that's where when the yield curve, you know, normalizes, you can start looking at five ones and seven ones and other types of products that could be of benefit to people or cash out refis or second trustee equity lines of credit stuff to weather the storm. So with that said, I wanna go back to you now on, if you wanna comment on any of that, feel free. And if not dive more into your, your marketing strategy that you were starting to, to go into, as it relates to your new career in Chicago.
Josh Mettle (00:58:02):
Well, let me touch on what you said real quick, and then we'll, we'll go on that. But there are always problems in every business and the, the reason why most people don't see them, or let's just say that, you know, F see them is because they are living in this constantly reactive state. In other words, if this interview with Tim started at 9:00 AM and I woke up at eight and I rolled in here at eight feet, eight 50, my entire day, would've been reactive. And by the way, when I got here, my mouse didn't work. My keyboard didn't work and my internet didn't work. And we still had enough time to pull this off. And I'm, you know, I'm, I'm not like a, a frantic mess because I prepared myself for this day with the expectation that things were going to go wrong and that I was gonna have to adapt to it.
Josh Mettle (00:58:58):
And I created, you know, that, that visual that I used before of dropping into the wave and then letting the wave propel me because I've controlled the first part of that day, that is quintessential for being able to spot the problems. If you're in constant react mode and you're just one emergency to the next, you can never zoom out far enough to look down and see what's going on. You're just in survival mode. So step one is we gotta get ourselves out of survival mode and into an, an energy where we're at. Cause we are causing everything that's in our environment to happen, and yes, there's gonna be internet outages and everything else. There's gonna be things that I can't control, but I certainly control the four hours before I got here. And that certainly prepared me to take on those things that came up and not let it completely ruin me for, for the day and for this interview and for all the things that I have to do afterwards.
Josh Mettle (00:59:54):
So the point was you were able to zoom out enough, have a, a, a look at the market and go, okay, that's bad, that's bad, that's bad, but where's the problem. Where's the opportunity? Where are people suffering? What are their problems? And if I can figure out their problems, then I can figure out how to, how to match them with solutions. Same thing that I did with investors that had 23 properties that were looking to buy their 24th home, same thing I did for doctors that owed $800,000 in student loans and made $43,000 last year and wanted to buy a $600,000 house with no money down. I, I saw the problems. I figured out how to find the solutions, but none of those things come to fruition if you're in a reactive state, 24 7. So that's gotta be step one to this equation.
Tim Braheem (01:00:44):
Yeah. And being the expert at something right. Rather than being a generalist and keep, keep going, keep going. You're on fire. I wanna, I wanna hear more about the, the marketing approach, how what's the let's, let's dive into that, you know?
Josh Mettle (01:00:58):
Yeah. And that's, that's another great point, you know, so, so then let's say we we're at, we're at cause over our day and we've got time to zoom out and we've got time to work on our business. Instead of just in our business. When I transitioned into the physician loan side of the business first, it was just trying to figure out where are the solutions? What are the patchwork of mortgage programs I need to bring together in order to solve this problem for, for doctors. Then I started to get into marketing and you know, this was a time where my, and I remember the, the, I think it was 2010 because the Utah recession happened later than everybody else's housing correction, California was coming up when we started to go down and I had my, my biggest year ever. It was the first time I ever broke seven figures in the mortgage business and myself and one assistant and one processor.
Josh Mettle (01:01:49):
We closed like 360 loans that year, 363 loans. And the, the, the end of that year coming into January of the next year. And I can't remember if I was coming into 2010 or coming into 2011, but I looked down in my pipeline. I closed out December. I was going into January's pipeline. And I had two loans in my pipeline. And this was a guy who was working new construction for investors. So it would not be unusual for me to have over a hundred under contracts in my spreadsheet because they'd go out for six months as the homes were being built. And I had two loans. And at the time we had 63 rental units, four of them were under renovation, massive cash flow, going out to renovate those properties, very little liquidity, cuz all my net worth was in real estate. And we were trying to build the cash flow of that engine, but it was very capital intensive to renovate the properties at that time.
Josh Mettle (01:02:43):
And the market shifted and I, you know, out of just fear started studying internet marketing. In fact, my mom started Utah land lady and no, excuse me, Utah law lady, her current website's Utah land lady, Utah law lady. And she was getting all these leads from the internet, from this website. And I, I, I said, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try that. I'm gonna try Utah physician home loans.com and just see what happens. And so we started this website, I started taking internet marketing classes from people like E and pagan and Frank Kern and listening to the whole no BS marketing series from Dan Kennedy and his partner, bill Glazer. And so I would wake up Tim at one 30 in the morning. This is no bullshit. I did this for three years, one 30 in the fricking morning by two 30 in the morning.
Josh Mettle (01:03:36):
Cause it would take me, you know, 45 minutes to kind of wipe the cobwebs out and get coffee down and get rolling by two 15 in the morning I was on some internet marketing seminar and I would watch that for about 90 minutes. Then I would have about an hour to implement whatever I was learning. And that would be writing content, writing ideas for videos, writing ideas for ads. And then Hillary and I would go to the gym at 5:00 AM and then we would, you know, I'd be in the office by eight. I did that for three fricking years. Dude, I lived on four hours of sleep. You know, it was like nine o'clock til, till one o'clock or something like that. But in that process I learned internet marketing and I learned how people are finding businesses online. I'll just share one other quick story and then I'll come up for a, a breath and let you interject.
Josh Mettle (01:04:27):
But this whole, at this time, this is right about when Google bought YouTube. And I dunno if you remember that event, but you know, they paid up some, a vast fortune for YouTube. And I started listening to some of these internet marketers and they're like, look, take everything that we've been teaching you, how to do in writing in terms of writing copy for direct mailers, for your newsletters, for coupons, for your websites and take all of that copy and turn it into videos. And one of the marketers that I was listening to said, just write down the 10, most frequently asked questions that your, your target market is asking you and then film YouTube videos and name the YouTube videos. The same as the questions the people are asking you. So for me, it was doctors and the doctors were asking me and I had a little, you know, sheet paper by me, which were my doctor questions had.
Josh Mettle (01:05:19):
And on there it was how do I buy a home with no money down? Is, can I avoid mortgage insurance when putting less than 20% down? Can I buy a home, be using my, my future contract for employment information? So whatever they would ask me, I would jot down, I would then kind of curate those into a common question. And I would film videos, answering those questions and name the questions the same as what they posed to me verbally, because what they were posing to me verbally, they were also typing into Google at that time. And Google was sending everybody to YouTube. So I do this you know, very low tech, everything wrong, no tagging, you know, like any of the stuff that we've developed now, I didn't know any of that. And I'll never forget. I typed in physician home loans into Google just to see what would come up out of the first 15 listings. My YouTube videos were three out of the first 15.
Tim Braheem (01:06:18):
Josh Mettle (01:06:18):
I literally owned Google when it came to physician home loans and the leads just started piling in. And I, you know, I, I remember days when I would clear my voicemail, I'd have 12 people to call back. By the time I cleared my voicemail and hung up, there was 10 more voicemails and I was like, oh shit, , I'm gonna need some help. And that's when we started really building the team out.
Tim Braheem (01:06:41):
So summarizing for everyone. So identifying where there needs from there doing your homework and finding solutions, which a lot of the time has to do with you being resourceful and figuring out product offerings that others may not know about. I had to do the same thing back in the day. Like I said, with just educating myself on this cost of funds index that nobody knew how to sell. Okay. once you found the product offering, then posing brilliant, I mean, brilliant advice like logging the questions you get, you know, taking note of the inquiries, cuz they're gonna be the same inquiries that people are gonna type into their search engine and then creating videos. Now let's talk about the videos for a minute because there can be this impression that, well, Tim Behe and Josh metal are just naturals on video. Like they, they know what they're doing.
Tim Braheem (01:07:40):
They have a ton of experience with it and that's not me. I'm not good on video. And I, I find that people a shy away from video and then frankly, those that do, and I'll give you my opinions after I hear yours. But those that do, I don't think do a very good job of it most of the time. I don't think that the videos that I see in most cases by people in the mortgage profession are particularly compelling. So number one, how did you get used to doing video? Did it come naturally to you? Did you have to work on it? Number two, what are some of your rules about video creation that you find to be incredibly
Josh Mettle (01:08:15):
Important? You know, entrepreneurs job is to find solutions and to find out how to do things that they don't know how to do. Employees jobs are to find problems. Now they're both the same thing, you know, in, and I don't mean to be rude in any way, shape or form, but this is really one of the big delineations between employees and entrepreneurs. Employee finds a problem and says, oh crap, I have a problem. Entrepreneur finds a problem and goes, oh, I found an opportunity. And my job is to learn how to do that thing or to find someone, you know, if, if it, if it's not gonna be, if you don't know, wanna learn how to do it, then you need to find a who to do it. Somebody else knows how to do that thing. So we have to fight our way through those things.
Josh Mettle (01:09:00):
There is no excuse to say I'm not good at video. I was not good at video. I am still working to this day to have a more magnetic and influential message. And that's true with public speaking or video, but the first, you know, the first hundred were grueling. I was in my own head. I wasn't sure on my message. I didn't wanna sound stupid. I wanted to make sure my hair looked okay. Like all of those crazy considerations is your hair ever not looked okay? it does. It's just, you know, you have to have the right hair products. Hillary takes care of me that way, but there, there are days it is, it is one of my insecurities for sure. I gotta make sure the hair's on point for hit play video, but all of those things are true for everybody.
Josh Mettle (01:09:48):
And I, I, I promise Tim had the same challenges. We all had the same challenges of, of, of wanting to get on there and say something that is influential and impactful and having insecurities around it. And there's no way to get good at it other than just doing it. And, and just, you know, you, you can study, I'll give you a few tips, but at the end of the day, you cannot get to the skill level that you're going to get to on your hundredth video on your first video, you just have to go through the sequence of doing 'em and learning 'em and becoming more comfortable with them. And then one day somebody says to you, how did you become like a natural on video? And you're like, I'm a natural, I, I didn't know. I got there. Thank you very much. So you just have to do it is, is the answer to that question.
Josh Mettle (01:10:33):
Now, in regards to having a more influential message, I can give you, you know, a couple of tips Donald Miller has written some marketing books, his, his first book that I read was becoming a story brand. And, and then he has a, a, a sequel to that. Another one that is tar targeted. It's titled something marketing, I don't know, remember the name of it, but go to go to Amazon search Donald Miller and Donald really summarized in one book, everything that I'd learned in marketing in the previous 10 years and all the courses I'd been through. And he made it really simple to understand. And one of the things that Donald taught me is this influence formula. Hey, if you wanna get a, a, a prospect, a client if you wanna get their attention, then stop talking about yourself, start talking about something that they care about because just drive down the freeway.
Josh Mettle (01:11:27):
There's so much noise, text messages, things that go off on our phones. There's so much noise as humans. We have to shut all that stuff out or we can't get anything done. And so what Donald will say is in, in all of your marketing, stop positioning yourself as the hero start positioning the client or the customer as the hero in the journey and, and tell, tell them how you can help them thrive and survive. So now they're the hero. I am the guide and I'm helping them on their journey. So that's kind of like the, the overarching principle of how I look at all, all of our marketing. And then he says, there's a very simple formula that will always get your customer's attention. And that formula is talk about their problems, show empathy, then show that you have authority. You've guided people that have those same problems through this experience to a happy ending, and then show them that you have.
Josh Mettle (01:12:36):
So lemme start over problem, empathy experience, and then call to action. So it's a four step process, but it starts with you talking about, Hey, are you a physician fresh out of residency or fellowship trying to buy your first home with a massive amount of student loans, no employment contract in hand, and no history of earning income. We understand the challenges of the mortgage market today and how that can be almost scary and embarrassing. We've helped hundreds of physicians over the years, just like you circumvent those underwriting and mortgage challenges to find a happy home, reach out to us for more information, right? So I'm just painting the picture. I have this, this customer, who's the hero in the journey. They come into conflict or challenge or problems that I'm gonna talk about. I'm gonna show that we have empathy and understanding for those problems. And we have authority in helping hundreds of physicians just like you, and then call to action. What's the next specific thing you want them to do
Tim Braheem (01:13:40):
Before I get into a few of my own opinions on video creation that I wanna hear your feedback on. I wanna ask. So let's go back to Chicago. You've identified a solu a problem. And now just briefly, what's the plan of attack with the marketing strategy? Are you, are you doing it on Facebook? Are you doing it on Instagram? Are you, what, what amount of of, of time and money do you have to spend on SEO? Give us a little bit of a, of a foundation of that, because I would imagine there are gonna be people listening to this gonna say, okay, I need to do this. Let's guide them as to what, you know, the first steps are in that process.
Josh Mettle (01:14:18):
So let's say that we got to Chicago and we started talking to realtors and we started going to local conventions and get togethers in the, with the real estate and mortgage community. And what we realized was the real challenge in the marketplace was to finance these Highrise condo buildings, but not only to finance these Highrise condo buildings, even deeper than that was the self-employed people who had had income disruptions due to COVID that were trying, that still had high income and high net worth, but had inconsistent income over the last couple of years because of what's been going on with the economy and the self-employed entrepreneurs were really having a hard time qualifying for the loans to get, you know, the high rise condo loans. Okay. So that's the area that I want to, I want to market to. So the first thing that I would do is I would figure out, okay, where do entrepreneurs moving to Chicago that wanna buy high rise buildings?
Josh Mettle (01:15:16):
Where do they hang out? Where do they hang out online? Are there websites, are there blogs? Are there places online where I can identify these people? I would wanna, I would wanna have, I would wanna have ads or articles. I would like to author articles would be the best thing that talk about those problems that those entrepreneurs are having in those high-rise condos and how we have solved for them here at Neo home loans. Right. Just hypothetically. The other thing that I would do is there are list brokers all over the country and list brokers will give you a list of self-employed people in a certain income category that live in a certain area. I mean, you can get really specific with those list brokers. You can then take those lists. You can snail mail to 'em. You can email to 'em, you can upload that database into Facebook and create a custom audience. And then I can put my videos and I can advertise just to those people. And of course I would be talking about the challenges that entrepreneurs have self-employed business owners have in qualifying, especially when they wanna bride building in high rises in condos. And here's the 10 ways that we solve for those problems.
Tim Braheem (01:16:24):
And what's gonna get you the most bang for your buck and your current experience. I mean, snail, mail's more expensive than Facebook advertising. What has the, what, what has the best ROI?
Josh Mettle (01:16:33):
Our, our custom audiences in Facebook with targeted videos using the formula of problem, empathy, authority, call to action. So that that's kind of like what the video would talk about and then leading to a landing page where the person puts in their information and asks for a consultation. That's been the, the, the biggest bang for the buck. We run roughly, you know, 20 to $25 per opportunity per client information that we get for consultation all with our Facebook advertising, if we do snail mail, we're, we're considerably higher than that, but there are still opportunities in both. And I've found that sometime in concert, those things can work really well, like, especially to pass clients, right? Send out an email, I get one or two or three or four, five responses. I send out snail mail, I get one or two or three or four or five responses. I hit that same group with a, with a video series and then send another postcard. And they're like, oh, freak. I meant to call the last time I saw this. Okay, now I'm gonna call. So sometimes you just have to get to that person three or four or five times through different media. And finally they're like, okay, now's the time I, this is, this is a problem. I gotta handle this.
Tim Braheem (01:17:50):
Got it. Okay. So as mentioned here, here's my take on, on video that, that I see I don't see this with you and you know that cuz we've talked about this. I think that you're really good on video, but as you said, you've logged a lot of hours, so it's not, I mean, I'm really glad that you debunked this myth that it's like you, you rolled out of the crib and all of a sudden you were good on video. I mean that, it's something that you needed to work at, but I just, I feel like everything from people don't know how to frame themselves up in the shot, you know, they're, they're like this, you see him this far away and it's like, I, a guy doesn't even have his shirt tucked in and you know, I mean, it, it, it just, the visual is just aesthetically, not attractive to the fact that you can clearly see that they are scanning back and forth with their eyes because somehow they have some kind of a teleprompter to the fact that they're too serious.
Tim Braheem (01:18:48):
Yeah. To the fact that they're trying most importantly, just to be too perfect. And it's where the words are coming from. In my view, it's probably 80%, if not 90% of the battle, you know, it's like, it's not even not all that important, what you say, it's how you say it and your sincerity. And, and if you're speaking from your heart and if you sound authentic and, and you truly do have empathy, I mean, you're talking about like bringing empathy into the equation, but you have to, empathy's not, empathy's a feeling, it's not a, it's not a word. It's not any script it's who you're showing up as in that video. And, and I, and I've, you know, you know, we showed some videos when you were in Costa Rica at the L 360 signature retreat, you know, of, of, of past people. And if you remember Dave cooks how beautiful it was. And he was like the least perfect that he got the most likes the most comments because he was the most real. Yeah. And you could feel him. So those are some very strong opinions that have, I'd be curious as to whether you agree with that or not.
Josh Mettle (01:19:50):
I a hundred percent agree. And I would just say that I, I still suffer from that affliction that I wanna be. I wanna be perfect. You know, I, I, I wanna be impactful. I want it to be meaningful. But that neurosis of worrying how perfect you are is counterproductive. You, you, you you're diminishing your authenticity. You know, you talked about the distance between your, your head and your heart. You're you're. If you can get into your heart and speak authentically, that has more impact in gravity and more influence than does any perfect script or, or how perfect you look. So it is that it is moving into your heart. And one of the things that Renee Rodriguez teaches, I was just wondering if I had my heart rock here, it's at my home office. He gives us a little heart rock when we go through his class.
Josh Mettle (01:20:41):
But he, he, he, he, he teaches us to center ourselves in our heart before we deliver a message. And that as long as this is where the energy's coming from, as long as the story that we're telling is connected to our heart, then it's going to be really well received. And there's a whole, there's a whole process to that, that I don't, I don't wanna give away his, you know, his, his trade secrets, but it's exactly what you're saying. It is. If you can get authentic and you can get comfortable and you can just, you know, think of one person that you want to help. That's another secret, Tim. One of the things that I learned early on was to create what's called an avatar. This is a guy named Frank Kern. Who's a internet marketing sensation. And he says, create a customer avatar. That is one person that you can see you you've, you've helped. It could be a client that is a, a prototype of all the rest of the clients that you wanna, you wanna help. And when you're talking, just talk to that one person, you know, I'm looking at the camera, but my message, it was almost like I was just holding up my, my phone, sending a text message video to that one person. And that kind of connection makes all the difference in the world in video.
Tim Braheem (01:21:53):
Yeah. People wanna work with people that they feel cared for by and, and, and, you know, and if they can't feel you it doesn't really matter how good you're scripting is or how handsome or, or beautiful you are. It's, it's, it's not gonna work as effectively as if, if somebody feels a sincerity behind what you're sharing. I have one more business question that I'm gonna close with a a personal question. So the business question is this is that you're incredibly well scripted. We know that we do this thing you're are the reigning champion, right? Is
Josh Mettle (01:22:25):
That correct? Oh yeah, baby. I gotta, I got it. Inscribed in everything.
Tim Braheem (01:22:28):
Yeah. Yeah. Well, we'll see if you hold onto the belt and come November, but we have this thing in the L 360 program in the master's program, it's called script Appalooza. And we have, we're blessed to have some of the best scripted people in the country and the mortgage industry in that group. And we have this little contest at every retreat. Josh is the current reigning script champion. Scripting is so important, man. Like, it's like the words that come outta your mouth are where you make your money. I mean, in addition to of course your marketing strategy, but, you know, marketing gets you the bats and and scripting gets you the hits as far as I'm concerned. So how did you become, is there any, any success strategies, any suggestions that you have for the listeners on how to get better at your delivery at your scripting, et cetera. And I know that you coach a lot of, I mean, one of the goals that you had in your business plan when you went through the L 360 program three year and a half years ago, or whatever it was was to, to really mentor other people on your team and to help them as loan partners in their scripting, et cetera. So what are some of the things that you found, let's take five minutes to discuss that, and then I'll hit you with the final question.
Josh Mettle (01:23:38):
I think the most important thing for me has just been to be aware when something that I say has impact on the other person. And you can tell that that person was, was moved by the way that that communication was crafted. And so to be aware of, of your impact and influence on the other person, that means you have to be present. If I'm thinking about what my next question is going to be, or if I'm thinking about the fact that I just got a team's popup message over here, then it's impossible for me to be aware of the reaction from Tim and I don't have to be on zoom. I can just feel it over the phone. I can just, you know, the, the conversation starts to evolve differently once you connect. And so I would just, I would simply just mentally, and sometimes I would just write down on my notepad.
Josh Mettle (01:24:39):
Okay. That transition from asking questions to getting that person to be okay with filling out an application online. That transition works better if I say these words, right? So I'll just give you an example. Mm-Hmm Tim, based on what I heard you say, I think we're gonna have a perfect solution for you and your family, and we're gonna be able to overcome the obstacle of limited down payment help you and your family avoid mortgage insurance, and also allow you to close on your new home before you start your job so that you can move seamlessly from California to park city. And you won't have to worry about, you know, being homeless or renting or anything like that. What I might suggest is we take the next step in the process, which will enable me to create for you what we call a total savings and wealth analysis.
Josh Mettle (01:25:30):
That total savings and wealth analysis is gonna not only show you cost, but it's gonna estimate for you, the amount of wealth you and your family are gonna build in real estate over the time horizon. We talk that you're gonna be in that house. And I think it's gonna make your decision making process on which of the mortgage options to go with ridiculously simple. So with your permission, I can text that link to you, or I can email it to you. If you'll take 10 minutes and complete our client questionnaire, then I'll be able to create that total savings and wealth analysis. And we'll jump back on the phone or on zoom and we can review it together. Would you rather, I text that or email it to you, Tim,
Tim Braheem (01:26:06):
Text it to me,
Josh Mettle (01:26:07):
Bam. And 99 times out of a hundred, when I would go through that scripting, I would go through a series of questions. I would take note on what are the hot buttons, what are the challenges this person might have with achieving financing? I would bring that up to their awareness. And then I would say, based on what I heard you say, I think we're gonna have the perfect loan program or potentially several options that are gonna overcome these challenges. I recite those challenges that best person might have, and then I move them into the next piece. So it's just going through that process enough to realize and become aware. When I say these words, it lands, and I have an, a great amount of influence for the person to do exactly what I need them to do to move down the sales funnel.
Tim Braheem (01:26:56):
And I'll add to that, that, you know, it, it again, notice the theme. Okay. We're, we're talking about a guy who's successful because he steps back from the, the intensity and the, and the distractions of the business and evaluates and an, and analyzes his growth and improvement strategy. Okay. So it's a strategic approach to scripting. And what I would add is that, you know, back in the day, when, when I used to do loans, I would always evaluate by, by writing down what I refer to as my swings and misses. So like, okay, I didn't get that deal. Why, what, what did I not do that if I had done, I might have gotten them. And I would even take the time sometimes to ask the client, like, you know, I respect the fact that you've chosen to, to go with somebody else. And not me.
Tim Braheem (01:27:44):
May I ask you, why did you go, why did you choose to go with them? And I would start to see patterns. Okay. Now think about how important this is. I mean, if, if you go from converting, you know, three out of every 10 people, you talk to to four out of every 10 people you talk to, okay. You know, think about how much more money you're gonna make. Just, just by figuring out as Josh was articulating what needs to be inserted into your presentation process. It may be a line, a phrase, a sentence, a paragraph, but the constant evolution of our scripting is critically important to our success as originators. And then the other part of it is, frankly, is that you gotta get a lot of it bats so you can practice it a lot. So if you don't have enough bats, then you need to crank up your marketing because there's nothing that replaces opportunities to then further improve your conversion ratio as a result of being able to deliver the scripts and test and, and see what works. Let's finish up with a question. I want you to turn back the clock. You're 18 years old, or if you could turn back the clock and talk to your 18 year old self with all the wisdom that you now have in your life as a, a man, that's a third of the way home to being 120 . What is, what, what, what would you share with him that 18 year old version of you about a decision that he made that you wish that he didn't make? And why,
Josh Mettle (01:29:17):
What would I share with him about a decision that he made that he wished he didn't make? Did I hear that right?
Tim Braheem (01:29:24):
That you wish that he didn't make, what coaching would you provide to him? If you could turn back the clock, he's about to make a decision in his life. It's a critical moment. You have the wisdom now of a 40 something year old. I'm not sure of your age. I think you're about 45 or something like that. Is that how old you are by the way,
Josh Mettle (01:29:39):
Tim Braheem (01:29:40):
Sorry that I added two years, but you could afford it. You could afford, you're gonna live to be 120. So, so
Josh Mettle (01:29:46):
Tim Braheem (01:29:46):
Air. Yeah, exactly. So, so, so you're 43 years old. If you could turn back the clock and talk to your 18 year old self and provide some coaching on a decision that he was about to make sometime in the future, what, what would the advice be that you wish that, that, that he had the wisdom back then?
Josh Mettle (01:30:02):
The first thing I thought of is, you know, all the mistakes that I have made, I'm actually glad that I made them because I, I think I've been able to learn through some painful experiences, some, some not so painful, but realizing that I'd made mistakes, that if, if you're gonna live a long life, you're gonna wanna make those mistakes early when mistakes aren't as big as later in life. So I, I don't have any mistakes that came up to me. Like, what do I really regret? I think that even the time in my life, when we had the great recession and the housing market crashed, and I was just, you know, minutes away from bankruptcy and foreclosure and by the grace of God, I nearly escape even going through that, the pain of that experience and the fear, and that experience totally changed my real estate investment philosophy going forward.
Josh Mettle (01:30:52):
And I don't have to learn those lessons again. I, I got it, you know, so I'm grateful for all those mistakes, but the thing that was coming up for me is, you know, life is a really long game. And I remember, especially in my 18 year old self would feel that I needed to have instant success and I needed to have especially as it relates to investing early in my, in my life that I had to hit a home run. And in retrospect, now I realize that life is long and we have lots of time. It's very expansive. And all I had to do was just get on deck and stay in the game. I didn't have to necessarily win or hit a home run. I just had to get in the game and stay in the game. And so I think I would have more, a little more patience. I think I would feel a little less pressure to always have to, you know, get it right, or, or win. And I would enjoy the experience a little bit more knowing how much, how much time there is to, to learn, to, to get it perfect or to win. And I'm sure that's a journey in 20 years. I might be telling my, my 43 year old self, but that's the first thing that came up for me.
Tim Braheem (01:32:10):
Awesome. I mean it kind of ties up by everything really quite well. Like, I mean, it goes back to, you know, the subject matter that we were touching upon very early on, which was the blind spot of being so driven that sometimes we're not enjoying the, the ride as, as much as we're constantly focused on where we're wanting to go rather than being in this present moment. And I think that's great wisdom. And I think when you couple that with having a, a nice, solid strategic plan that you clearly have articulated throughout this interview, then you have much more of a balanced life. So, man I know that you've got a Facebook interview. You gotta jump on, you probably gotta use the restroom. You probably wanna, you know, get a little something to drink. I wanna let you go. And I wanna say thank you so much for and I'm sure that everybody else that's listening to this is grateful to you for really a great, great interview. And I really appreciate your time, brother.
Josh Mettle (01:33:00):
My pleasure. It was an absolute blast. I appreciate it. Can't wait to listen to the rest of the recordings and, and interviews in your series.
Tim Braheem (01:33:06):
Thanks, bro. Have a great day. Okay, man. See you soon.
Josh Mettle (01:33:09):
Talk to you soon, brother.
Tim Braheem (01:33:10):
Bye-Bye all right, team. Let's talk about this interview that I just completed with Josh metal. And I wanna give you some, some some coaching. I wanna extract some needles from the haystack. I wanna give you some next steps.
Tim Braheem (01:33:27):
Let's first start with the way he starts his day. I think that there's a tremendous amount of gold in what it is that he shared. Getting up at, at three 30 in the morning, really getting into a rhythm, starting at 4:00 AM, starting his day, right with the right kind of energy, getting in a nice long meditation. And just for your benefit, Josh meditates to a meditation teacher by the name of Dr. Joe Dispenza, D I S P E N Z a. I am a huge devote T and a fan of Dr. Joe I've. I've actually been following him for about three years now. I have hired him to speak at our leadership 360 events, and I've also attended two of his weeklong events. And I meditate to Dr. Joe's meditations on a daily basis myself. So I strongly recommend that maybe you look into that if a meditation practice is something that you're looking to cultivate.
Tim Braheem (01:34:18):
Now, what Josh does is he starts his day off right by fueling his body with his, with his supplements, with his with his elixers, if you will, his mushroom tea, his warm water with lemon and honey. And then he, he goes about doing his business by meditating getting in a workout. And maybe most importantly is with a clear mind before the day really attacks him and comes at him. He's got a good hour to hour and a half to work on something proactively uninterrupted. And I really want to encourage you to build a mechanism like this into your morning routine in some capacity, starting off your day, by reaching for your phone and having the world come at you and, and getting your nervous system jacked up is certainly not an effective formula for having a successful day. So before Josh's day even gets started by 9:00 AM.
Tim Braheem (01:35:14):
When he, when he logs in, when he goes into the office and all that, he's already accomplished so much, he's gotten in a workout, he's made it a priority to create a morning that allows for him to have certain components of life balance that are near and dear to him implemented before the day takes over. And this is a key, you know, if you're waking up and you're letting the world come at you and, and, and and you're fighting back against everything that's coming at you it wears you down. And by the time you get home at five o'clock at night, it's tough to get a workout in. It's tough to be present with your family, but but he's getting a lot of that accomplished early on. The other thing that he's done and that he highlighted and that I'd like to see, all of you implement is he's created a transition plan a transition plan from when he's done with work to how he's gonna spend those last two or three hours before he goes to bed with his family.
Tim Braheem (01:36:05):
And he talked about grounding his feet and, and, and the grass. And, and for you, I just think it needs to be the things that are near and dear to you. Like, for me, it could be like listening to certain music. So a part of my transition plan when I'm done working for the day I work from home is I usually put on some music. And then I'll call a friend or I'll call my mom, or I'll call my son. And I'll touch base with somebody just on a personal level that will kind of ground me into the connection experience, right? So mean, I'll pour myself a half a glass of wine and I'll have a conversation with someone. And then I'll start to make my dinner and start to, to wind it down. And I really shut out the rest of the outside world.
Tim Braheem (01:36:45):
And you can do that if you, in fact, get up early enough the next day to where you can clean out your email and your text messages before the new set of batch of, of, of, of incoming, you know, carpet bombing of, of, of information comes at you. So really strongly give consideration based upon this conversation with Josh, about how you can create a morning routine and a transition routine from work back into your home life that is supportive of you. I'll add one other thing to that. You know, those of you that are working at the office that drive that you have from the office to your house is a very important time. What are you doing with that time? Are you still responding to, to text messages and, and returning phone calls, or are you taking that time to use it as a bridge for that 10, 15, 20 minute drive to, like I said, either, listen to music, maybe call a friend, connect with a family member.
Tim Braheem (01:37:43):
And then when you get home, maybe going for a walk around the block movement, energy, shifting the energy. I have clients who I've suggested. They put a, a photo of their family in their glove box. And when they pull into the driveway, they take that photo out and they take a look at their family that is near and dear to them, and they connect with them before they open up that door and walk into the home. Another thing that Josh talked about as it related to my inquiry with him about moving to Chicago and starting all over and I think that this is a really important point for all of you going forward into 2022 and beyond as the market transitions is really taking a step back and asking yourself the question, what are the problems that people are having right now?
Tim Braheem (01:38:27):
You know, there's the stuff that, that we get into a rhythm the products that we get into a rhythm of selling the approaches that we get into a rhythm to acquiring business, calling our past client database, as an example, and, and, and mining it for refis. And then when that ends a lot of us, because we haven't thought two steps ahead are kind of left in the, in the wake of all of that wondering, okay, what do I do next? Because all I know is that I'm stressed out and my pipeline is, is, is, is looking pretty meager for, for next month and the month beyond. And do I need to lay people off and all of that? Well, the time is, is before that happens to be thinking about what is the next need, what is the next opportunity? How can I help people that might have problems?
Tim Braheem (01:39:12):
And I, and I, I think that, that another key thing to that is as Josh articulated, you know, really looking for unique and, and different product solutions. So the time is now to be looking at those products that you haven't been selling in a long time, working on your scripting for how you're gonna position and present those products. As I mentioned in the interview, I mean, I had to get used to selling a a negative amortization adjustable. I mean, it had such a negative stigma around it. It was considered to be like the voodoo loan. And I had to figure out a way to present it in a different way to where somebody would hear the term and not be so afraid of it. And it took me time. It took me understanding from wholesale account executives how the product really worked.
Tim Braheem (01:39:58):
It took me looking at payment coupons to seeing what was being presented to the borrower after the transaction closed. So I could really educate them. And it took me on top of that, really understanding the movement of that index. Back in 1994, when I was selling it, because it was a very slow moving index. And one that, that was far superior to the LIBO or the T bill at that time, because they were very volatile when we were in a volatile interest ratement. So I was able to really find a niche if you will, and an opportunity that would allow for me to still be successful when everybody else was dropping out of the business, like FL. So you heard Josh talk about that that happened to him a couple of times in his career. What are you going to be doing right now?
Tim Braheem (01:40:41):
What are the products that you're going to be researching? What is the specialty that you're going to provide that others aren't when they're still trying to figure out what's happened and why rates have have gone up, and their business has slowed down so much. We then transitioned to the subject matter of marketing. And there was a, a really meaty discussion around that. And some of the things that I heard him say that I think are really important, or that he took note of the questions that were being asked of him by the physicians, and then he labeled the videos with those questions, which is critically important. Okay. So the questions that people ask you are the needs that they have, they are the clues that you should be paying attention to. So again, in summary, physicians had questions for him. He labeled the videos that he created with the solutions to those questions.
Tim Braheem (01:41:38):
He labeled those videos with the question, having trouble, getting a mortgage, when you're fresh out of graduate school question mark, you you're gonna get sucked into watching the video. And it happened to line up with the search engine inquiries that were being made by these different consumers. So a brilliant strategy there. And you gotta do video. He talked about it. It's important. You know, again, I think we debunked a little bit, the theory that, you know, there's just gifted people on video, and there are others that are not, no, it takes practice. It's, it's something that, you know, you're gonna get good at over time. You know, when you first started in the mortgage business, I want you to think about it. Were you good at explaining an adjust for eight mortgage? Were you good at explaining the closing cost estimate? Were you good at explaining all the fees, et cetera?
Tim Braheem (01:42:22):
No. You had to learn how to do that. Well and in today's day and age you know, those that are excellent will always be successful and those that are good, sometimes won't be because good in a tough market. Isn't good enough. We talked about my feelings on where you're speaking from when you're creating a video. So, you know, I, I, I can't emphasize this enough. I mean, as a, as a long tenured public speaker, although I don't do too much of it anymore, I used to have the comment come to me from when I come off stage people in the audience would say to me, you know, there's just something different about you. I don't, I don't know what it is. And, and, you know, I just, you really resonate with me. And, and I would, I would take that with such such flattery.
Tim Braheem (01:43:07):
And I was so humbled by the kindness of the, the expression of those people. And I realize now, in hindsight, what they were saying was that I connect with you because you speak from your heart and that's just always been a real concerted effort of mine. Whether it be when I'm speaking in public on a stage, or if I'm doing a zoom call with all of you or I am doing a video for promotional purposes. It doesn't matter. It's all the same. Can they feel me? Do they feel my sincerity? Am I trying to be too perfect? Cuz guess what? When you're trying to be too perfect, you're in your head and then they can't feel you then you're incredibly overly scripted. I'm speaking to you right now from an unscripted place. I'm I'm I don't have any idea what I'm gonna say next.
Tim Braheem (01:44:02):
And as a result of it, you can feel me because I am centered right in the middle of my chest and talking to you from a place of wanting to serve you and help you. And I think that that's one of the things that, that is appreciated about my delivery. I really wanna encourage you to embrace that too. I want you to trust that when you create a video that you don't need to be perfect, that you just need to be real. You know, I, I referenced something that we did in the L 360 program back about four years ago, we're in Washington, DC for one of our retreats. And we decided to do a video lab. We knew that a lot of our clients needed to do video and were afraid to. And I took my, my partner, Scott Betton and I took about eight different loan professionals up onto the rooftop where we had set up a video lap and we had tripods and microphones and all that kind of stuff.
Tim Braheem (01:44:54):
And we had them create a video that they would then post on Facebook and we wanted to do a test. And I had some of the, the best originators in the business. A couple of the best teachers in the business that were incredibly gifted orators. One of them being Ryan Grant, who some of you may know another one being Brent Hicks, and they both did an excellent job and they were, they were perfect in every way, like first take done. And then I had a guy named Dave cook, who isn't the most gifted order that you'll ever see. And he's not as polished if you will, as Ryan Grant or Brent Hicks. But I asked him to just speak from his heart and Dave fumbled through a little bit, he confided into the camera that he was nervous that this was the first video that he had ever done.
Tim Braheem (01:45:46):
And that he was doing this as a, as a sample because he really wanted everybody to know what an amazing experience he was having at this retreat and that he wanted to to, to converse with his real estate partners when he returned about some of the things that he was learning and share some of his wisdom and when he was done, he's like, I gotta do that over again. I, no, you don't. I'm like, no, you don't. That that video is magic right there, man. He's like, oh no, I screwed up. And I was stumbling and stamering, and like, that's the magic in it, brother that is, what's gonna have people connect with you. So I convinced him to post it. And we did a test. He received four times the number of comments on Facebook than Ryan Grant or Brent Hicks. He received twice as many likes as them.
Tim Braheem (01:46:31):
And that doesn't mean that their videos weren't great. It just means that he was real and people were connected with him because he wasn't so perfect. And I wanna share that story with you because I want you to dispel the limiting belief that you somehow have to be a gifted order on camera. You don't, you need to be real and you need to speak from your heart. You need to have good content, of course, but you don't need to overdo it. Let people feel you that's the key to good video. Next you know, being a guide on their journey, I thought was a really big takeaway. So not making the video about you making it about them, you know, the old phrase, people don't care what you know, until they know that you care. Okay. So if you make, you know, a lot of the videos that I see about there have a lot of bravado and a lot of egoic expression, and that turns people off and it creates a disconnection.
Tim Braheem (01:47:29):
If you're coming from a place of, as Josh said, that you're the guide on their journey, but it's their journey. Now, of course, you're not gonna say those words, but that's the vibe. That's the feeling that you want them to have in your marketing is that I have empathy for you. I have compassion for you. I know that right now, this is a challenge and I'm here to help. And let me tell you how I can help you. If you come from that place, people are gonna be drawn to you. And if you come from the place of I'm the expert and I'm this and that perfect and very salesy people see through that kind of crap. So very, very important. I talk touched on something as it related to scripting that I think was important. Really logging where you're swinging and missing.
Tim Braheem (01:48:19):
I found to be incredibly valuable for me as it came to me, evolving myself as a well-scripted loan originator. So knowing where you're missing, knowing why somebody chose to not go with you and went with someone else, is it your fees? Is it your marketing material? Is it your your lack of, of, you know, Yelp reviews? Is it that you're selling the wrong product? Is it that your rate's an eighth or a percent higher or a quarter, quarter of a percent higher? I mean, what's the reason most of us out of our own ego will get the rejection and never want to talk to the person again. And that's the critical error taking a humble approach and saying, you know, I really respect the fact that, you know, you've given me an opportunity to earn your business. And I'm sorry that I haven't been able to do that.
Tim Braheem (01:49:08):
If you don't mind me asking you one final question, why did you decide not to go with me because I really want to improve and get better? And if you would be so kind is to share that with me. So as to help me so I can, you know, become more successful in my trade. I'd really appreciate it. Think about the message you're sending to that person, that person's not gonna be irritated with you. They're gonna be flattered that you're asking them for their feedback, and they're gonna provide you with valuable feedback. And then from there practicing new ways to present your products and your services in a proactive way. So getting out in front of the objections, if you, if you're starting to see a pattern that it's the same objections over and over, that are costing you deals, then you need to embed into your scripting, the counter to those objections before they could ever be voiced. So let me give you an example of that.
Tim Braheem (01:50:02):
You know the number one, objection you're gonna get is rate. I mean, statistically, I mean, I've done enough homework on it over my career to know that that's the reason that I would lose more deals than any other. If my rate was a little bit higher. So I realized that I didn't wanna get into the rate game, not in the first phone call, the first phone call, didn't provide me with enough time to bond and build rapport on didn't build rapport which is where I was gonna separate myself from the competition. It didn't provide me with enough time to educate and teach, which was gonna create separation for me and a competitor. So in the initial dialogue, in that very first phone call, I get out in front of that objection, and I'd say something along these lines. Now I develop this script over time from watching the swings and misses and strategically as Josh does.
Tim Braheem (01:50:47):
And as I did figuring out how to counter it. So I'd say, you know, Mr. Jones, I'm not a fan of throwing a bunch of rates, payments, closing costs, tax deductibility, principle, prepayment strategies, things of that nature at you over the telephone, especially in our first phone call. I mean, I find it to be unprofessional when people do that when they don't have enough information. And I don't wanna make that critical mistake. What I wanna do is I wanna do a little bit of homework and I wanna do a little bit of research on your behalf, and I'm not gonna charge you for it. I wanna ask you some questions in this initial dialogue. I wanna really understand your goals and objectives thoroughly. And I wanna talk to several of my investors and I wanna put together a comprehensive spreadsheet for you that compares contrasts three or four different loan scenarios.
Tim Braheem (01:51:30):
So you can make an intelligent decision for yourself and for your family as to what works best for you. And I'll send that to you by tomorrow at five o'clock. And then we can go over rates and fees and all of that. Would that be okay? Never did I have somebody say to me, no, that's not okay. And what I've just done is I have established that I'm gonna buy some time to be able to then do a formal presentation for the person that is well thought through, and that is gonna create separation for me and my competitor. And that's where I started winning more deals. I wanna wish all of you luck going forward and success really glean the value that you receive from this interview with Josh, he's such a talented guy, and it was so nice of him to do the interview with me. And I hope that this post interview and discussion coaching has provided you with some value as well. I'll talk to you next time.